The Seagraves Family, The California branch: who we are and where we came from.: August 2010

Tuesday, August 31, 2010

Could the Nasty Ol' Sheriff of Nottingham have been a Seagraves?

This is for my Seagraves in history series. I'm not sure if these Seagraves are in our genealogy, but its fun reading about them.

Could the mean ol' Sheriff of Nottingham have been a Seagraves?

Well, lets see . . . if you've read or at least saw a movie of Robin hood and there are lots of them, you'll know that there is something missing. Namely the name of the Sheriff.

It's true.

He is only called the Sheriff or Sheriff or Nottingham and nothing else.

Let's delve a little deeper shall we?

The Sheriff of Nottingham is an important figure in the legend of Robin Hood, and the archenemy of Robin and his Merry Men. The holder of the office of Nottingham's Sheriff, it is his task to capture outlaws such as Robin Hood, either to ensure the safety of trade routes through Sherwood Forest, or to keep them from poaching the King's deer. In some stories, the Sheriff of Nottingham is portrayed as having a lecherous desire for Robin Hood's lady, Maid Marian. He is widely considered to be the principal villain of the Robin Hood stories, appearing frequently, alongside such enemies of Robin Hood as Sir Guy of Gisbourne or Prince John (though rarely both).

The story takes place in 1200-1400

That's a awfully big time frame.

So who was Sheriff during that time?

The legends are generally set far from Nottingham, one explanation being that a short-staffed King of England placed the Sheriff of Nottingham in charge of law enforcement for much of northern England. This is the case in the film Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves in which the Sheriff's influence has grown so great he attempts to take control of the throne.

In some versions, the Sheriff is more a cowardly schemer while his assistant, Sir Guy of Gisbourne is a more competent and determined physical threat to Robin. In other versions, the Sheriff answers to Prince John who is the main villain.

It has been suggested that the historical sheriff upon which the stories are based was William de Wendenal, Roger de Laci, or William Brewer.

Or are they?

The Sheriff of Nottingham was historically the office responsible for enforcing law and order in Nottingham and bringing criminals to justice. For years the post has been directly appointed by the Lord Mayor of Nottingham and in modern times with the existence of the police force, the position is entirely ceremonial and sustained to boost tourism due to the legendary connection to the tales of Robin Hood. However the historical position goes back to Anglo-Saxon times. The office is sometimes confused with that of the High Sheriff of Nottinghamshire. Before this, during 1068 until 1449 the position existed as High Sheriff of Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and the Royal Forests.

So the office isn't necessarily called Sheriff of Nottingham.

Previously, from 1068 until 1449 the position existed as "High Sheriff of Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and the Royal Forests."

And this is the time in question. So if I expand my search to include this office . . .

http://books.google.com/books?id=K3MaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA484&lpg=PA484&dq=sheriff+stephen+de+segrave&source=bl&ots=iyGt-bdAhZ&sig=_hlsKsqoQFHLNDkGS72_ex-VrIE&hl=en&ei=0rF8TKa5G4SKlwfY0KTtCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=sheriff%20stephen%20de%20segrave&f=false

Sorry couldn't copy and paste this. But it says here that Stephen de Segrave was at one time the Sheriff of Nottinghamshire during the time of December 12, 1264 which is in the time frame for the Robinhood story.

1223-1223 Stepehen de Segrave here's another link that says Stephen de Segrave was sheriff of Nottinghamshire.

Okay, so maybe I'm reach just a bit. But you have to admit it is very interesting. *wink*

Here's another interesting link.

Seagraves Family HistSeagraves Coat of Arms / Seagraves Family Crestory

The surname of SEAGRAVES was a locational name 'of Seagrove' a spot in County Leicestershire. Following the crusades in Europe in the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries, a need was felt for a family name to replace the one given at birth, or in addition to it. This was recognized by those of noble birth, and particularly by those who went on the Crusades, as it added prestige and practical advantage to their status. At first the coat of arms was a practical matter which served a function on the battlefield and in tournaments. With his helmet covering his face, and armour encasing the knight from head to foot, the only means of identification for his followers, was the insignia painted on his shield, and embroidered on his surcoat, the draped and flowing garment worn over the armour. Local names usually denoted where a man held his land, and indicated where he actually lived. Early records mention Thomas de Segraua, 1180, County Leicestershire. William Seagrave was documented in County Notttingham in the year 1300. Edward Segrave of Yorkshire, was listed in the Yorkshire Poll Tax of 1379. The name is also spelt Seagrief, Seagrove and Seagrave. In many parts of central and western Europe, hereditary surnames began to become fixed at around the 12th century, and have developed and changed slowly over the years. As society became more complex, and such matters as the management of tenure, and in particular the collection of taxes were delegated to special functionaries, it became imperative to distinguish a more complex system of nomenclature to differentiate one individual from another. The origin of badges and emblems, are traced to the earliest times, although, Heraldry, in fact, cannot be traced later than the 12th century, or at furthest the 11th century. At first armorial bearings were probably like surnames and assumed by each warrior at his free will and pleasure, his object being to distinguish himself from others. It has long been a matter of doubt when bearing Coats of Arms first became hereditary. It is known that in the reign of Henry V (1413-1422), a proclamation was issued, prohibiting the use of heraldic ensigns to all who could not show an original and valid right, except those 'who had borne arms at Agincourt'. The College of Arms (founded in 1483) is the Royal corporation of heralds who record proved pedigrees and grant armorial bearings.